I, .J. E. Rhodes, do hereby certify that I am the Stenographer who reported the debate between Aimee Semple McPherson and Ben M. Bogard, held at the McPherson Tabernacle in the city of North Little Rock, Pulaski County, Arkansas, on the 22nd day of May, 1934.

I further certify that the annexed and foregoing typewritten pages contain a full, true and complete transcript of my stenographic notes of said debate, to the best of my knowledge, and ability. I further certify that both speakers spoke for the same length of time, Dr. Bogard speaking much faster than Mrs. McPherson. This is the explanation for there being more pages of Dr. Bogard's speeches than of Mrs. McPherson.

Given under my hand, this the 27th day of July, A. D. 1934.

J. E. Rhodes.

Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 27th day of July A. D 1934.

J. S. Abercrombie, Notary Public.

My commission expires 25TH DAY OF July, 1936.

Introduction

This debate came as a result of a challenge given to me by Mrs. Aimee McPherson during her tabernacle meetings in North Little Rock. She had attracted a great deal of attention and many were being led astray by her false teachings. I preached against her doctrine both over the radio and in my pulpit at the Antioch Missionary Baptist Church, where I am pastor. The newspapers quoted extracts from my sermons and Mrs. McPherson listened in over the radio and she challenged me to come over to her Tabernacle and debate with her. She said before several thousand people and I heard her say over the radio that, "If this preacher does not believe what I preach let him bring his Bible and come over here and I will debate it with him." A day or two after that I attended her services and in substance she said: "I understand that the preacher who said my work is of the devil is in the congregation. If he will prove by the Bible that miracles, such as Jesus and the apostles wrought, are no longer possible, I will close my Bible and never preach again."

The people understood that she had challenged for a debate and I wrote her a courteous letter as follows:

Little Rock, Ark., May 8, 1934.
Mrs. Aimee Semple McPherson,
North Little Rock, Ark.

Dear Mrs. McPherson:

In reference to my broadcast last Sunday you seemed to challenge me or any one else to meet you in debate on our differences. I might have misunderstood you but I listened in at your service over the radio and it seemed to me that you challenged any one to meet you in debate. If I am mistaken I beg your pardon.

Being a gentleman I would not think of disturbing your services. I believe in free speech and free press and free radio. I would not stop you nor any one else. I hate intolerance and love freedom of worship and freedom of speech. I believe we should discuss frankly and honestly our differences and not persecute any one because he may not agree with us. I have somewhat of a reputation as a debater and debaters are always tolerant and for that reason I tolerate what I do not endorse and try to show those who do not agree with me their error. I am willing to make that effort with you.

You said in your broadcast that you did not believe in using the scissors on the Bible and that you thought that all of it APPLIES TO US IN THIS AGE and for that reason you take the Bible FROM COVER TO COVER AS YOUR RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE. Will you affirm that, THE ENTIRE BIBLE, THE BIBLE FROM COVER TO COVER, IS THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTISE TO BE OBSERVED IN THIS AGE? If you will so affirm I shall gladly deny it and you can name the time and place for this discussion.

Of course the debate should be governed by the rules of honorable controversy and have the time divided equally between us. I await your answer.

Sincerely,

"Ben M. Bogard."

Mrs. McPherson gave the foregoing letter to her representative and he came to my office with the letter. Since I wrote the letter to her personally this gentleman could not have had it in his possession and brought it to me unless she turned it over to him. He asked me if I wrote the letter and I told him I did and he said that Mrs. McPherson asked him to come to me and negotiate the terms of the debate. He said that he would call me over the phone at about five o'clock and tell me the results of his conference with Mrs. McPherson. He did not call and I therefore addressed another letter to Mrs. McPherson as follows:

Little Rock, Ark., May 11, 1934.

Dear Mrs. McPherson:

I have so far received no reply to my letter in which I accepted your challenge to debate. Your representative came and brought the letter I wrote you and thus you answered through your representative. But he did not call me over the phone as he said he might and thus I am left not knowing whether you are willing to face an opponent in open discussion or not.

I attended your services last night and you took particular pains to tell the audience of my presence. I was made to hope that you would stand by your challenge because you said, and were correctly quoted in this morning's paper as saying, "IF THIS MAN (referring to me) OR ANY ONE ELSE WILL PROVE BY THE BIBLE THAT THE DAY OF MIRACLES HAS ENDED, THEN I WILL QUIT AND NEVER PREACH AGAIN."

That is exactly what I will affirm. Since you have thus repeated your challenge and have submitted the very words I shall be glad to use in my affirmation, you will please name the time and place for the debate and we shall have it. You will EITHER DO THIS OR I SHALL READ THESE LETTERS OVER THE RADIO NEXT SUNDAY AND RELEASE THEM TO THE NEWSPAPERS who no doubt will like a story of this sort.

I assure you that wisecracks and stunt performances will not long deceive the masses. Thinking people will ask why you will not debate when you made the challenge and it has been accepted. I await patiently your answer.

Please have your representative phone me or call on me and we can arrange details. I AM ONLY ACCEPTING YOUR CHALLENGE.

You have been posing as an ordained Baptist preacher. You are not an ordained Baptist preacher and never have been. The church that ordained you ceased to be a Baptist church and became a Pentecostal Church BEFORE it ordained you. I am perfectly familiar with your record as I have spent much time on the Pacific Coast and have visited Angelus Temple. I was there while you were in the hospital under a good doctor and two nurses and I spoke over the radio from the Church Of The Open Door and exposed your heresies right there in Los Angeles. I have wondered why you use a doctor and medicine and surgery when you get ill and yet ask others to discard all these and expect the Lord to work a miracle to cure them. I am not guessing at what I am doing.

Sincerely,

Ben M. Bogard.

*Note: See lecture referred to in the Appendix of this book.

This letter frightened her and she declined to debate (so her representative told me) unless I would promise not to expose her record since I had told her that I knew her record and was on the coast while she was making some of the worst of it. But I made the promise to let her record alone and confine myself strictly to the subject leaving personalities out. To this she finally agreed and the following was agreed upon as the subject for the debate.

Resolved: that miracles and divine healing as manifested in the Bible ended with the Apostolic Age.

We met at the appointed time and she had her crowd of several thousand admirers well organized. They had been listening to her for twenty-one days and were under her HYPNOTIC control almost perfectly. They sought to hoot and howl and BOO and cat-call in such a manner as to drive me from the platform. But they failed in this and the debate was taken in spite of the effort to break it up by such disorder. I had chosen Eld. D. N. Jackson, of Texarkana, as my moderator and he TRIED TO PRESIDE but the unruly mob of McPhersonites made it impossible for him to keep order and he had a difficult time in protecting me so that I might speak my full time as the effort was to keep me from using my allotted time. Such disgraceful conduct on the part of the McPhersonites showed what they regarded as religion. I was prepared for a lot of disorder but I was not prepared for the vicious MOB SPIRIT that was plainly manifested by Mrs. McPherson's followers. They seemed to think that noise, confusion, cat-calls and BOOING, and insulting remarks shot at me from the audience was the correct thing to do and they made the most of it.

The reader may ask why I did not withdraw from such a mob and refuse to debate under such conditions? That was exactly what they were seeking. If they could have driven me off the platform they would have shouted VICTORY and would have really thought that such as that was victory. My purpose was to expose the heresy and not to win such individuals as were under the hypnotic power of Mrs. McPherson. I was making a book that would be read by thousands after the mob had been silenced. Besides that I am no better than Paul who faced fanatical mobs and was evil treated and even mobbed by his opposers. Police protection saved me from violence and the stenographer got what was said and the debate is before you. You may read it and decide if it was worth while to face the howling mob in order to get BOTH SIDES before the public.

Mrs. McPherson is the founder of a new denomination, known as the Four Square Gospel Church. Over three hundred congregations of this new denomination have been organized and she is the recognized head of it. Besides being the founder of this new religious cult she is the best representative that all shades of that heresy have in the United States and possibly in the world. The people called Holy Rollers, Pentecostals, Come-outers, and such like all teach substantially the same thing that Mrs. McPherson teaches and when she is met successfully all of them are met. This debate becomes especially interesting and helpful when it is considered that I have not only met the Four Square Gospel heresy but at the same time have met all classes of Holy Rollers, Pentecostals, Apostolics and such like who are spreading themselves all over the land.

Holy Rollerism, Pentecostalism, McPhersonism are substantially the same differing only in small details. Modern Miracles, Divine Healing, Speaking with Tongues and such like are all exposed in this debate and the beauty of it is that the BEST REPRESENTATIVE they have has presented their side. The debate therefore becomes authority on this subject and it can be used successfully in combating the errors connected with the heresy all over the land.

The evil effects that come from this type of religion shows itself in loose sex relations. All classes of them have a very large percent of sex immorality among them. They marry and divorce their husbands and wives. They are living in an atmosphere of emotionalism and it results disastrously in sex relationships. There is an unusual and exceedingly large percent of sex promiscuity among their young people as they follow the example of the older ones. A visit to the Arkansas Training School for Girls confirmed this decision for the Superintendent, a very high class lady, told me that EIGHTY PERCENT of the fallen girls consigned to her care came from the homes of Pentecostals and other so-called Holy Rollers. The notorious scandals connected with McPhersonism are so well known that it is needless to recount them here. No doubt that was the reason Mrs. McPherson demanded that I do not go into her record before she would agree to debate.

Bob Schuler, the famous Methodist preacher in Los Angeles, exposed McPhersonism in a book entitled "McPhersonism." If what he says in that book is not true he could be sent to the penitentiary for criminal libel. But Mrs. McPherson has wisely chosen to not prosecute him. That book can be obtained from Bob Shuler, Pastor Trinity Methodist Church, Los Angeles, Calif. for 25 cents and those who want to know the terrible story can order that book. If this notice can be the cause of thousands ordering that book I shall be glad. VICIOUS SEX RELATIONS is written all over these Modern Miracle sects, and the terrible record of the Arkansas State Training School For Girls, as related to me by the superintendent, shows the need for exposures such as this debate is.

The pretence of healing is fully exposed in this debate and the Appendix, which follows the record of the debate, gives startling facts that need to be published all over the world. They falsify when they make such big claims and even if they actually did perform miracles it would be by the power of the devil and not of God.

Every true preacher of the Word of God should help in spreading the exposure as found in this debate. It should be a part of the business of all good men to help expose heresy, especially such dangerous heresy as McPhersonism, Holy Rollerism, Pentecostalism and such like.

Sincerely and earnestly,

Ben M. Bogard.

McPherson-Bogard Debate

______

NOTE: Before the debate started, the audience sang, "What a Friend We Have In Jesus."

High School Trombone Quartet.

MRS. McPHERSON: Good evening everybody. (Cheering) I know you have been sitting a long time. We are going to try to save your strength and ours. We are going to come quickly to the debate. My opponent asked me if I would say a word just before the chairman speaks and that word is to be that the audience may express themselves by moderate applause only, I am calling on my friends. I know you will do that if you love me, and I know those who love Dr. Bogard will do what he says. He will say a word to his friends. Everybody is entitled to hear both speakers and I am sure a most fair hearing will be accorded both. I will now ask Dr. Bogard to say a word to his friends.

DR. BOGARD: I appreciate the fact that Mrs. McPherson requested her people not to engage in boisterous applause. I am certain my friends don't need it. (BOOING, cat-calling and gross disturbance followed by the McPhersonites)

It is a fact that any mule can kick and make a noise and bray but that is not argument and if anybody thinks it is, that is just weakness on their part and I certainly don’t want my friends to engage in that sort of thing. Listen to Mrs. McPherson. Listen to what she actually says. I suppose her friends will take her advice and do the same toward me. (Applause.)

CHAIRMAN: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen: It affords me great pleasure tonight to have been selected to act as chairman of this meeting, although I did not anticipate it. I want to read the agreement: Agreement for debate by Aimee Semple McPherson and Ben M. Bogard. "We, the undersigned, do hereby agree to meet in public debate Tuesday night, May 22, 1934, at the McPherson Tabernacle in North Little Rock. The subject to be debated shall be as follows: Resolved that Miracles and Divine Healing as taught and manifested in the word of God ceased with the closing of the Apostolic Age."

CHAIRMAN: I now have the pleasure of introducing Dr. D. N. Jackson of Texarkana, Editor in Chief of the American Baptist Association Sunday School Literature who has been chosen by Dr. Bogard as his moderator.

DR. JACKSON: I am calling Brother M. L. Moser, Pastor of the Central Baptist church Little Rock to lead us in prayer while we stand:

REV. MOSER: "Our Heavenly Father, at the beginning of this discussion we are here in your power, we love thy word and the teaching of thy word. Father we ask tonight that this discussion be one that will open our hearts and our minds to the truth, and when we receive the truth we will be willing to walk in the truth; we ask that Christian courtesy be observed, in thy name Father, we ask it. Amen."

DR. JACKSON: Debating has been the means of bringing to light truth and uncovering error which is its principal object, therefore, we should be here tonight for the sole purpose of learning what the Bible teaches on this important question. This seems to be a happy climax to a question that has been under fire of questioning for a number of years. While we are to let the Bible be our criterion we should give prayerful consideration to the Bible talks as given by the two speakers. It is my happy privilege, ladies and gentlemen, to introduce to you the affirmative speaker tonight. The question has already been read. The affirmative speaker is a man of wide experience, a veteran in the field of polemics; he has had the distinction of having held more debates than any other Baptist minister living or dead. We put behind him unqualified endorsement. We have known him for years. We know him to be a champion of any proposition which he maintains. He is an authority on the question of debate. He comes tonight with the hearty endorsement of his people. He is a man nationally known, and I will say internationally known as a writer, a speaker, a lecturer and debater. It is my delight to introduce to you Dr. Ben M. Bogard, Pastor of the Antioch Baptist Church. Dr. Bogard.

Proposition:

"Divine healing and Miracles as taught and manifest in the word of God, ceased with the Apostolic Age."

Dr. Bogard's First Speech

I most gladly affirm this proposition and in order that we may understand what we mean I shall define the terms used. Divine healing as seen in the Bible was without the use of medicine or surgery, direct, immediate, perfect. Miracles were supernatural acts of God such as turning water into wine, stilling the storm on the sea, cleansing lepers instantaneously, taking up serpents and not being harmed and drinking deadly poison without injury, and raising the dead. In Matt. 10:8: we read where Jesus sent his disciples out to "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead." Our Lord told his disciples that they should even do greater works than he did, meaning greater in number, certainly not greater in degree or power. The issue between Mrs. McPherson and me is not whether we should pray for the sick but the issue is whether miraculous healing or any other kind of miracles can be had today.

A common argument, and one used with tedious repetition by Mrs. McPherson, is that the Bible says, "God is the same, yesterday, today and forever." She has contended that since God never changes that therefore he never changes his laws, never changes dispensations, and continues to have the same rule of practice that he had all the way back SHE HAS NEVER LEARNED THAT GOD DOES CHANGE WHILE HIS CHARACTER REMAINS UNCHANGED. If we are expected to take the whole Bible, Old and New Testaments, as our rule of faith and practice then we shall still be compelled to offer up animal sacrifices, such as lambs, bullocks, and red heifers. That was once the practice by the command of God. We shall still be compelled to observe the Passover Feast, and observe all the temple ceremonies. But Mrs. McPherson will agree that those things have been done away because they were all fulfilled in Christ. Exactly. They served their purpose and being fulfilled in Christ they were done away. There was the Seventh Day Sabbath, that was observed by God's command, that we no longer keep because in the New Testament we have the Lord’s day or Sunday. God has not changed but he has changed his laws and his methods. Even so miracles had their purpose and when the purpose for miracles was fulfilled then miracles were done away.

What was the purpose of miracles? Why did Jesus and the Apostles heal the sick miraculously, and cleanse the lepers, and turn water into wine and still the storm at sea and raise the dead? The purpose of these wonderful miracles was to convince the people that the message brought by Jesus and the Apostles was from God. Miracles were their credentials. When Jesus healed the paralytic man (Mark 2:1-12) he said be did it "That ye may know the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins." I feel sure Jesus knew what he was talking about and I am sure He told the truth as to why he wrought miracles. Nicodemus was convinced by the Lord's miracles that Jesus was sent from God because, he said, "No man can do these miracles that thou doeth except God be with him" (John 3:1-16) Heb. 2:3-4 says "How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by our lord, and was confirmed by them who heard him, God bearing witness both with signs and wonders and divers miracles."

What was the purpose of miracles? These passages say they were to confirm the message of God. In Mark 16:20 we read: "And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, confirming the word with signs following." Thus we see that the purpose of miracles was to confirm the word spoken by Christ and the Apostles. The purpose of miracles never was to accommodate the ones on whom the miracles were performed. In II Tim. 4:20 we read where Paul said: "Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." Why did he leave him sick since Paul had the power to heal? The answer is that Trophimus was already a believer and did not need the miracles to confirm the word. Paul told Timothy to "Take a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" 1 Tim. 5:23). Why did not Paul heal Timothy? He had the power to do it. He had the faith necessary. Why then did he not heal Timothy? Because Timothy was already a believer and did not need the miracle to confirm his faith. When the Bible was completed, when John wrote the book of Revelation the Apostolic Age ended and the Bible being finished, the Word of God fully confirmed, miracles were no longer needed and like the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament, and the Temple ceremonials which fulfilled their purpose and were done away, being no longer needed, so with miracles, when no longer needed they were done away.

The Bible plainly tells us that miracles, these supernatural gifts, were done away when the New Testament was completed. I Cor. 12th, 13th and 14th chapters is on the subject of Spiritual Gifts. In the 12th chapter and first verse we are told what the subject is. Here it is: "Now concerning Spiritual Gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant." "Spiritual Gifts" is the subject. In that 12th chapter at least nine gifts are mentioned, such as healing, gift of tongues, prophecy, inspiration, called the gift of knowledge, and on through the list. In the 13th chapter we are told that all these gifts were done away "when that which is perfect is come." What is that perfect thing that would come and at which time the miraculous would be done away? Some strangely say that it means these gifts will pass away when Jesus comes again. A student of Grammar who has studied Grammar so much as three months knows that a personal pronoun is not used here. It does not say when HE WHO is perfect is come, then the supernatural gifts would pass away but it says when "THAT WHICH" is perfect is come. You can't correctly speak of Jesus as a "that which." What perfect thing has come? The New Testament, which James calls "the Perfect Law of Liberty" (James 1:25).

The New Testament, at the time Paul wrote Corinthians was only "in part" and Paul said in this 13th chapter that they knew "in part," and prophesied in part, but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away." That settles it. So long as the Bible was in process of formation, up until the last word in the Bible was written, they only had the truth "in part." But when the New Testament was completed they had the PERFECT THING, the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and then INSPIRATION, prophecy, tongues, and all other miracles were done away. In Eph. 4:14, we read that the "Gifts," these miraculous gifts, were to last "Till we come into the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God." That Unity of the faith is the New Testament. At the time Ephesians was written the faith, the knowledge of the Son of God, was in fragments, in part only, as Paul said in Corinthians. But when the New Testament was completed the KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD WAS COMPLETE and hence the Gifts ceased. These gifts, mind you, were to last "TILL this knowledge of the Son" of God was completed, and having been fulfilled the gifts passed away.

Then what have we left? Paul explains in I Cor. 13:1, "Now abideth, faith, hope and love, these three." Can you spell three? Can you count three? Then you know just exactly the number of gifts that remain. What are they? "FAITH, HOPE, LOVE, THESE THREE." If we still have the gift of healing that would make four and if we still have the gift of tongues that would make five and if we still had the gift of prophecy that would make six. But it does not say we have four, five or six of these supernatural gifts left, but it positively says we have JUST THREE and names them, FAITH, HOPE, LOVE. It seems strange to me that any one can conclude that he has four, five or six of these miraculous gifts when the Bible plainly says that only three abide in the Church. God has not changed. He is the same, yesterday, today and forever, but he changes his methods of dealing with men, he changes his laws, and he changes dispensations, and when he has served his purpose with such things as the Jewish ceremonials, and with the Seventh Day Sabbath, He sets them aside and starts something else. So when he used miracles for the purpose of establishing his PERFECT RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE, to confirm the word until it was fully written, then he set aside miracles also. HE IS UNCHANGEABLE but he changes his laws and methods as it suits him.

Why do we not need miracles now the same as they needed them before the Bible was completely written? Because the Bible is fully confirmed and preachers can be gauged by the New Testament. You can tell whether the preacher is from God by whether he preaches according to the written word and miracles would be superfluous. How do we know the New Testament is God's word? We know it by several rules. The miracles recorded are as much for us now as they were for those who personally witnessed them. In Mark 16:17, the passage used so much by modern miracle workers, we read: "THESE signs shall follow them that believe. In my name shall they east out devils, they shall speak with new tongues, they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." What signs? THESE SIGNS. Not similar signs, wrought over and over again, but these signs, the very signs that the Apostles wrought shall follow all believers all through the ages, not signs we do but the signs the Apostles wrought, THESE SIGNS shall follow clear on down to the end of time. We have every one of these signs recorded in the Bible and wherever the Bible is read these same signs are right there.

A surveyor surveys a tract of land and he makes signs of the land lines by hacking the trees and placing corner rocks. Those signs remain on through the years to come. Any one can go to that land and see the same signs that the original survey made - the signs follow from one generation to another. We do not need to hack fresh notches in the trees and set out fresh rocks on the corners from year to year. The signs FIRST MADE REMAIN and follow on down through the years to come. So in establishing the Bible, the original survey is sufficient, the Bible is marked all over with God's approval. The original signs remain, they follow and are just as good today as they have ever been. No need for more. If there is need for more then the Bible is not perfect, it needs supplementing. II Tim. 3:16 says: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." If we are COMPLETELY, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED FOR ALL GOOD WORK in the Bible there is no need for miracles. If something in addition to the Bible is needed to bolster up the Lord's work, then the Bible is not a perfect rule, it is short somewhere or some-how. Those who use miracles or expect miracles to be used show that they do not believe what God has said in his word, because they demand further confirmation.

How do we know that the Bible is God's word? We know it by fulfilled prophecy. Peter calls fulfilled prophecy the "more sure word of prophecy." The prophets foretold events that have come to pass in such wonderful exactness that we can not doubt their inspiration. The scientific accuracy of the Bible proves it to be from God. It was written long before any scientific book was written and yet there is not an unscientific statement in the Bible. We can demonstrate the Bible to be God's word and hence we do not need miracles to confirm it. It is already confirmed. It is a "perfect law of liberty." The man who demands miracles shows he has no confidence in the Bible.

Since God withdrew the power to work miracles from his people it follows that any miracles wrought now are wrought by the power of the devil and not by the power of God. Can the devil work miracles? He can. If you will read the 7th and 8th chapters of Exodus you will find that when Moses wrought miracles, "The magicians did so with their enchantments." In Rev. 13:13-14 we read that the beast deceived the people "By means of those miracles he had power to do in the presence of the people." In Rev. 16:14 we read that it is "The spirit of devils working miracles." Jesus foretold that just exactly this sort of thing would be in Mark 13 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." In Acts 8:5-11 we read of Simon the sorcerer who bewitched the people by his sorcery until the people declared: "This man is the mighty power of God." Thus we see that Simon did such wonderful things that the people were convinced that he was the MIGHTY POWER OF GOD. We read also of Elymas the sorcerer in Acts 13:6-11, who wrought miracles and led off many people but Paul came along and called him a "Child of the devil." Rough language to use against a miracle worker. Some of you may think I am speaking roughly but don't forget I am using Bible language.

The devil has the most attractive preachers in the world. Read II Cor. 11:14-13 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as ministers of righteousness," (You are a liar yelled a McPhersonite), I did not say that. I read these very words in the Bible and you called God a liar. God pity you. The devil does not come with cloven feet and horns and barbed tail and dark visage. He could not deceive people that way. A counterfeit is not dangerous if the difference between it and the thing counterfeited is glaring. But when the counterfeit looks almost exactly like the genuine, so much like it that very few people can detect the difference, then it becomes dangerous. That is why the devil comes to us as an angel of light, he comes in the most attractive form and even preaches righteousness. He even works miracles that benefit people to get them the more in his power. If the Scriptures read do not mean this then they have no meaning.

Every heretical cult and church founder that comes along comes working miracles. Why should not Mrs. McPherson? The Mormons have a large book printed telling of their wonderful healings. These Mormons, with a half dozen wives each, come along healing the sick. Are they of God? Alex. Dowie, the founder of the cult that holds forth with Voliva as their leader now, healed thousands of people. Yet he was living in such disgrace that his name became a stench in society. Christian Science, that denies the existence of the devil, denies the existence of sin, comes along healing. So with all the Pentecostal, and Holy Roller sects, they come healing and talking with tongues and working miracles. Now comes McPhersonism exercising this same sort of deceitful powers. They all claim the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and power to work miracles. Do they work miracles? If they do the Bible says it is by the power of the devil.

But Mrs. McPherson says that if this is true then the devil has been converted and has gone to doing good works. Not at all. He is only up to his old tricks, clothing himself as an of light and if he does any good thing it is for an evil purpose in order to deceive the people and thus get them securely into his power. Are the people sincere who are deluded by such deceitful work? Read II Thess. 2:9-12: "Even him whose coming is after the workings of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders and for this cause God shall send upon them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." Are they sincere? Certainly. So is the Hindoo mother who throws her babe to the crocodiles to appease the wrath of her imaginary god. Are they sincere? So is the Mormon woman who believes that her salvation depends upon her husband having several wives. Sincere? So was Saul of Tarsus who said he thought he was serving God when he persecuted the saints and brought them bound into Jerusalem. The devil can deceive until those who "kill you will think they do God’s service" (John 16:2). Sincere? Hear what the Lord says of some who shall appear in the Judgement: Matt. 7:22; 23, "Many shall say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then shall I profess unto them I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Surely these miracle workers were sincere or they would not have talked like that at the Judgement.

Mrs. McPherson declares that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is what enables her and others like her to work these miracles. The baptism of the Holy Ghost was miraculous. All of God’s people have the Spirit. The Bible says that we are born of the Spirit, that we are led by the Spirit, and that we have the comfort of the Spirit. But the Baptism of the Spirit was miraculous and passed away with the Apostolic Age. How do we know this? Here is how we know it. In Eph. 4th chapter we read: "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." For awhile there were TWO baptisms, the baptism in water and the baptism in the Holy Ghost. But when the baptism in the Holy Ghost accomplished what God intended to accomplish by it that baptism passed away. In Acts 2:38 where it says the promise is "unto you and your children and to all them that are afar off" it has no reference to the baptism of the Holy Ghost. That is not what is promised but the remission of sins and the gift of the Spirit is promised to all to the end of time. If we have water baptism, and Mrs. McPherson declares we have, she having stated many times during her protracted meetings here that many thousands had been baptized in water in Angelus Temple, then it follows that the Holy Ghost baptism would make TWO BAPTISMS and Paul made a mistake when he said that there is only ONE baptism. To suit the McPherson doctrine it will need to read "One Lord, one faith, and TWO baptisms." Her whole theory of miracle working depends on this unscriptural idea of Holy Ghost baptism.

If I am right in my contention that these miraculous gifts have passed away then why pray for the sick? I pass the question back. Why pray for bread? When we pray for bread we go to work to get bread. That is right. When we pray for sinners do we not go to work and do all we can to get sinners saved? Certainly we do. Then when we pray for the sick, we should do all we can to bring them back to health. Since God made Peruvian bark from which quinine comes and quinine kills the malaria germs we should pray for the one sick with malaria and then give quinine, God’s remedy for malaria. When we pray for the poor we should take our prayers along in a basket and pour it out in the pantry of the poor. Two little boys were on their way to school and one said, "We are late, let us get down here and pray that we may get to school on time," but the other said, "No, let us run and pray while we run." Even so when we pray for the sick, let us do all we can for them, and since a good doctor knows more about how to help the sick than we do, we should pray and then call the doctor.

Paul had a bodily affliction, a thorn in the flesh, and he prayed three times for the Lord to remove that bodily affliction but God refused to do so, telling Paul that "My grace is sufficient for thee." (II Cor. 12:7-10). If Mrs. McPherson had been there she would have told Paul that healing of the body is in the atonement and that it is guaranteed like the forgiveness of sins. But Paul was not a McPhersonite. He knew that healing of the body was not in the atonement and for that reason he said he took pleasure in his infirmities which God refused to remove.

Job suffered agony with terrible affliction brought on him by the devil, God permitting it. (See the book of Job). All the faith that Job had did not keep him from suffering. God was working out a great purpose in this terrible affliction of Job. If healing of the body had been in the atonement then Job would have been as well in body as he was in soul. God sometimes has a purpose in allowing his people to suffer. Will he sometimes heal in answer to prayer? Yes, just exactly as be gives bread to the hungry in answer to prayer, the sick get well and the hungry are fed in answer to prayer but both are done by the use of means and not by miraculous power. Pray for bread and then hitch up old Beck and go to plowing. Pray for the sick and send for the doctor. If we do as Mrs. McPherson teaches we shall pray for bread and sit down and wait for God to bake it for us and slice it and put butter on it and drop it down from heaven. That is exactly what she does when it comes to praying for the sick. She advises the sick to throw away medicine and refuse to use a doctor and just depend on the Lord to work a miracle. Can't you see the absurdity of this? Can't you see the Bible plainly says that the miraculous ceased when the New Testament was completed? Can't you see that the power to work miracles has been withdrawn from God's people and that the devil's people only have power to work miracles? That is one way to distinguish between the Lord's people and the devil's people. The Lord's people are willing to accept the Bible as a PERFECT RULE OF FAITH and Practice but the Devil's people positively refuse to believe the Bible unless a miracle proves it to them. You should use your brains and not be carried away by pomp and beauty and spectacular performances and miracle working.

Here are some questions I present to Mrs. McPherson to answer. If she does not answer them the people will know the reason why. (Here the McPhersonites broke out in yells, saying "Put him out").

1. Why do you go to the hospital and use doctors and medicine when you get sick?
2. If other people should refuse to call the doctor and take medicine as you instruct them and leave their healing to a miracle to be wrought by the Lord, why do you not practice that?
3. If there is only ONE BAPTISM according to Eph. 4th chapter, why do you advocate TWO baptisms, one in water and one by the Holy Ghost?
4. Since the Gift of Knowledge has passed away according to I Cor. 13th chapter why do you claim to have direct inspiration from God?
5. Since it is specified that the gift of prophecy shall pass away so soon as the New Testament was completed I Cor. 13th chapter) why do you claim to be a prophetess?
6. In your book "Lost and Restored," page 4, you say that "this booklet was given to me in vision and prophecy, under inspiration and power of the Holy Ghost," If so is that not in addition to God's Bible?
7. If you have added to the Bible how do you escape the curse pronounced on those who add to God's word! Rev. 22:16 says: "If any man shall add to these things God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." How can you escape this curse, since you declare you speak by inspiration. thus adding to God's inspired word?
8. The Bible says that when prayer is made for the sick that the elders of the church should be called in. Where do you find Scripture for calling the sick to the elder in a public healing service?
9. Since the elder or bishop must be the husband of one wife how in the world can you qualify as an elder or bishop since you certainly can not be a husband at all? See I Tim. 4:2. ("Throw him off the platform. Put him out," yelled many McPhersonists).
10. Did you not write in your book entitled "This and That," page 776; that God showed you in a vision that you, Aimee McPherson, are the BRIDE OF CHRIST?
11. If you are the bride of Christ where do the rest of the saints of the Lord come in?
12. If healing is in the atonement then have you not fallen from grace when you get sick?
13. Since you are in full control of the Four Square churches and personally own the property and appoint the pastors over the congregations as you did when you established the Four Square Church in Little Rock, how do you miss disobeying the positive command in Matt. 20:25-26 where it says "The princes among the gentiles exercise dominion over them but it shall not be so among you"? If you do not have dominion over these Four Square Churches, who has?
14. Why did not you heal the little Tacket boy who came up paralysed in his arm? His arm is no better.
15. Why did you not heal the little girl you brought on the platform and took off her braces and showed the people how she could walk without them? She has never been so she could not walk a little without braces. But she is in braces again.
16. Why did you make the palsied man who lives on Seventh Street go back and thus refuse to try to heal him?
17. Why was not the insane man brought from the asylum healed? He went back to the State Hospital worse than ever.
18. Why can you heal a mule you needed to work for you and the mule's broken leg was instantly healed when you fail to heal the little helpless children who are brought to you? Is God partial to mules?
19. My friend, Elder E. R. Harper, is writing a book of the fake healings and he wants the names and addresses of those you profess to have healed. He will investigate each case and publish the pictures if possible with doctor's certificates. Will you have the names for him? (Time out).

Continue to Part 2